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Posted by Nojeel on 10-05-2002 09:08 PM:

back in time

if you had a chance to go back in time..would you really? if you were given the oppurtunity to change something you really wish to change..would you? doing a certain action in the past..can greatly change the future..would you take that chance..or accept the way things are..lets hear your insights guys..

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-05-2002 10:20 PM:

i don't know, the classic cliche everyone says, as i'm sure will be said here will be to say "i wouldn't change a thing! cause then i wouldn't be the person i am today!" But, i'm sure there are some practical things you could go back and change. Say you caused accidental harm to someone, there wouldn't be anything wrong with saving them i think. But that could be argued both ways. Still i think from a viewpoint of doing more good than bad, if you saved someone by going in teh past, i think that would be a greater good than "shaping who you are." What about future accidents you ask? Well, you should have learned your lesson! haha, jp, anyway if you go back in time to change it you are conscious that you have done it, so you'd still have the lesson. Either way, you should have learned from it! haha, or just known better.

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Posted by rhymester* on 10-05-2002 10:29 PM:

yea i guess i would have taken back some mean stuff i said to my sisters when we fought in the past..and also maybe have tried to put in more effort to give them their presents on time!! >_<

other than that...i think for school n stuff i tried my best so thats all good.

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Posted by jini on 10-05-2002 10:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
i don't know, the classic cliche everyone says, as i'm sure will be said here will be to say "i wouldn't change a thing! cause then i wouldn't be the person i am today!" But, i'm sure there are some practical things you could go back and change. Say you caused accidental harm to someone, there wouldn't be anything wrong with saving them i think. But that could be argued both ways. Still i think from a viewpoint of doing more good than bad, if you saved someone by going in teh past, i think that would be a greater good than "shaping who you are." What about future accidents you ask? Well, you should have learned your lesson! haha, jp, anyway if you go back in time to change it you are conscious that you have done it, so you'd still have the lesson. Either way, you should have learned from it! haha, or just known better.

uh.. yea. what he said.

if people can't go back in time. there's a reason for that.. but there ARE somethings i really regret.

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Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-06-2002 10:16 PM:

Re: back in time

quote:
Originally posted by Nojeel
if you had a chance to go back in time..would you really? if you were given the oppurtunity to change something you really wish to change..would you? doing a certain action in the past..can greatly change the future..would you take that chance..or accept the way things are..lets hear your insights guys..

wtf.

why is this debate?

Posted by DEmeant0r on 10-06-2002 10:38 PM:

I would go back in time and kill osama and Hitler.

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-06-2002 11:03 PM:

Re: Re: back in time

quote:
Originally posted by Zero-Sen

wtf.

why is this debate?

why not? it's not like it's a pure random thought. A question of morality could seem to sprout from this, or of the consequences that could spur from it/benefits. It had potential to be a debate. But, you could argue that the other way of course too.

Posted by Ladi Jay on 10-06-2002 11:40 PM:

jini got me thinking a bit... people in today's society are playing too much with what we have and what we want... doing such things if we could would most likely cause dramatic pain and suffering... I'm totally against the cloning and affects are already occuring because of that... I say, if we do find a way to go back into our past or whoever elses past and change it, we shouldn't because what was done is done... it shouldn't be changed at all... besides, it shapes us right? what happened in the past made things the way they are today, we learn... not just how to shape ourselves, buh government, society, life, everything...

Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-07-2002 02:25 AM:

Re: Re: Re: back in time

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman

why not? it's not like it's a pure random thought. A question of morality could seem to sprout from this, or of the consequences that could spur from it/benefits. It had potential to be a debate. But, you could argue that the other way of course too.

we really should define these forum parameters more strictly.

Posted by TyGer STyLe on 10-07-2002 03:48 AM:

huh... your reply is a debate in itself... haha

newaiz... i wouldn't, if God wanted it to happen, then it was meant to happen... theres a plan there that we can't understand... so if it happens it happens...

if you really wan't to know why i feel this way? ask me personally...

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Posted by merc on 10-07-2002 05:41 AM:

...

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Posted by merc on 10-07-2002 05:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ladi Jay
jini got me thinking a bit... people in today's society are playing too much with what we have and what we want... doing such things if we could would most likely cause dramatic pain and suffering... I'm totally against the cloning and affects are already occuring because of that... I say, if we do find a way to go back into our past or whoever elses past and change it, we shouldn't because what was done is done... it shouldn't be changed at all... besides, it shapes us right? what happened in the past made things the way they are today, we learn... not just how to shape ourselves, buh government, society, life, everything...

true.

since we got Zero-sen whining about this thread being out of place...(which is not)...let me try to fuel a debate...

I could go at this in so many directions...but no one wants a novel for a post... so i'll try and defend my case using the perspective of power of time.

Let me try and describe the power of time:
I always believed time is our worst enemy because it's constant...unlike us. time goes on no matter what the circumstances, its inexorible, inevitable...you can say its a universal truth. At the feet of time is the power of the universe. God created the world w/ time (7 days).....Everything around you was created in time, everything is dependent on time, nothing can overcome time in this world. *its not proven, and will never be.... (how can you truely prove that something lasts forever?)
so you see.... even science is at the feet of time.

If you had the ability to mess with time, you'd basically have this power. and although this type of unlimited power would be nice..., lets face the truth... we can't handle this type of power. imagine a world where we could simply go back and forth and change things. [We may start with a few MAJOR things in our lives (such as a death of a loved one, or an unforgettable- life influencing past event) ... but sooner or later i could bet that anyone who had this power would be exploiting it at their will.... and like Ladi Jay plainly put...there are somethings we simply cannot change...because we, as humans... cannot handle it. I believe there's a reason why this so called "brilliant" species have not yet discovered time travel...and its simply because it's a power we cannot handle....i believe the moment anyone had it, it will be the moment we stop existing......
it's beyond the question of morality... its a truth.

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"Truth is not determined by how many people believe it."

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-07-2002 06:45 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: back in time

quote:
Originally posted by Zero-Sen

we really should define these forum parameters more strictly.

nah, it's cool. There's no need yet, and that it's rather hard to lay down strict rules for these kind of gray areas. But whatever, we can have differing opinons.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-07-2002 07:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by merc

I could go at this in so many directions...but no one wants a novel for a post... so i'll try and defend my case using the perspective of power of time.

I don't mind, write a novel...

quote:

Let me try and describe the power of time:
I always believed time is our worst enemy because it's constant...unlike us. time goes on no matter what the circumstances, its inexorible, inevitable...you can say its a universal truth.

All right, for the sake of playing devil's advocate, here's a dumb argument: You can't say its a universal truth. Is it? does the entire universe encompass time? In a multiverse does it encompass time? or is there some master time over this time? Does it even exist? Do we just call this distance of occurences time or does it actually exist...no it doens't exist, we constructed it. Time is a label. Is it constant though? Democritus in ancient greek times said time flows like a river. That one can go upstream in time, or even further down. I don't entirely disagree with him, it sounds feasible, but then again most things do when we really have no understanding of them.

quote:

At the feet of time is the power of the universe. God created the world w/ time (7 days).....Everything around you was created in time, everything is dependent on time, nothing can overcome time in this world. *its not proven, and will never be.... (how can you truely prove that something lasts forever?)
so you see.... even science is at the feet of time.

This is kind of another devil's advocate argument haha, i don't really think this, but think about it: no no no, just because time is part of somethign doens't mean that time ruled over it. I'm painting a wall, and time is passing, does that mean that time rules over me? no it doesn't, it means that time is present, not that it has any sort of control. Nothing is dependent on time, time is dependent on them. Without anything to define differences in time, time would not exist. Change is what defines time. If everything was constant, then there would never be anything called time. Time is constant because things change. And time does influence things, but nothing is dependant on time. Everything is affected by it though.

quote:

If you had the ability to mess with time, you'd basically have this power. and although this type of unlimited power would be nice..., lets face the truth... we can't handle this type of power.

hahah, why not? yes we can. It's not as if we are "handling it" we are just going back and forth. The effects of this travel is the power you speak of. You are confusing the two. Time is not power, the effects of changing time is the power.

quote:

imagine a world where we could simply go back and forth and change things. [We may start with a few MAJOR things in our lives (such as a death of a loved one, or an unforgettable- life influencing past event) ... but sooner or later i could bet that anyone who had this power would be exploiting it at their will.... and like Ladi Jay plainly put...there are somethings we simply cannot change...because we, as humans... cannot handle it.

Please, explain this...what things can we not change? people's mindsets? maybe i guess, but those really can be changed if worked upon, it's not as if it's out of hte reach of probability. But what can't we change? i don't get what you mean? what is so great that we can't handle it?

quote:

I believe there's a reason why this so called "brilliant" species have not yet discovered time travel...and its simply because it's a power we cannot handle....

Wow, that must be the reason, we just can't handle it, so some omnipotent, ethereal being stops us from having it. Who cares if you didn't intend religion to carry into this, saying there is a "reason" above us dictates there must be some sort of omniscient that is the source of the reason...how can it not? That doesn't make any sense, we can't handle it? so we can't figure it out? Maybe it's just impossible, maybe it's cause we are not smart enough/haven't figured it out yet. Why does everything have to have all ready happened for us to not have to call it "not being able to handle it." That's what your message just said.

quote:

i believe the moment anyone had it, it will be the moment we stop existing......
it's beyond the question of morality... its a truth.

How will we possibly stop existing? And i see a connection to morality in here, but where did it come from in this post? it just came out of no where, and i don't think this is a truth at all.

Posted by Klumzy on 10-07-2002 05:26 PM:

i would go back in time and prevent adam and eve from eating from the tree of knowledge... maybe make him eat from the tree of life???

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Posted by TyGer STyLe on 10-10-2002 04:24 AM:

huh... psychosnomans so cerebral honestly ive never looked at time that way... HmM... very cool..... still i understand what merc is saying... he's just leaving pot holes in his theory... lets just say that

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