Jusunlee.com Forums - death penalty

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Posted by krnxswat on 10-10-2002 11:36 PM:

death penalty

are you for or against it? :huh: :sleepy:

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Posted by tm11 on 10-10-2002 11:38 PM:

I'm against.

Can someone please move this to the debate forum.

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Posted by krnxswat on 10-10-2002 11:39 PM:

my bad. moved to debate forum. :satisfy:

Posted by TyGer STyLe on 10-11-2002 12:34 AM:

part of me... thinks there should be a death penalty... but when i look at all the costs for putting people to death, and all the beuracracy involved, i wonder if its worth it all?

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-11-2002 12:46 AM:

against,

killing someone who killed another person (one instance) because the state thinks it's bad is just hypocrisy.

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Posted by Nojeel on 10-11-2002 12:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
against,

killing someone who killed another person (one instance) because the state thinks it's bad is just hypocrisy.

if that person murdered your family/friend wouldn't you want that dispicable excuse for a human being to receive the same fate, by having his life executed? i know i would.. my emotions would the get best of my judgement, yes i know. instead of me thinking that this individual is spending the rest of his life in prison rotting in a cold cell, i would like to get my hands on him and kill him with my own hands.. i would have nothing but sorrow if i were to find out if he/she escaped (i know im going really ahead of myself

) and the thought of that person can commit harm and do even more hideous actions to someone else..

yes i agree with you david..killing someone cause they killed someone else is not justified...but if you were in this position..im very positive that you would want that individual who caused pain, hurt, and emotionally scar you for the rest of you life, to be tortured and executed without any sympathy...

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Posted by aznkid1008 on 10-11-2002 02:11 AM:

well like i said before in a different thread.
no human understands life and no human understands death in this world. so therefore how can a human hav the RIGHT to take death into their own hands unless for survival. i am against the death penalty. but hell personally if someone killed any of my family members or any of my close friends, i'll f*cking kill them if i had the chance. rage blinds the judgment of a human.

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Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-11-2002 03:06 AM:

the death penalty has no statistical justification, nor does it deter anyone from commiting crimes.
It is a way for the "righteous" to vent out their frustrations and bloodrage in vengeance. Revenge=irrational behavior=bad. While I definately understand how the families of the victims would want a death penatly, i would bitch slap them if they ever say that it was the "righteous" thing to do.

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-11-2002 03:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter
the death penalty has no statistical justification, nor does it deter anyone from commiting crimes.

please, how can it not? if you're scared of dying, you won't do certain things. In Turkey, you are beheaded for miniscule offenses i heard somewhere. They have a lower crime rate than other countries as a result. Punishment deters people from doing things. If you will get a detention after 3 tardies, will that deter you from being tardy? Of course. If the penalty is death, then there is less of an incentive so to speak to perform the violation of the law. If all that happened when i was tardy is that i had to erase the chalk board as a consequence, i'd be tardy all the time cause nothing would happen really. If i was killed, i would never be tardy. Simple as that. I just restated myself a bunch of times, so how can it not deter people from commiting crimes?

And, i agree with the rest of your post. That's the only part i have conflict with.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-11-2002 03:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nojeel
if that person murdered your family/friend wouldn't you want that dispicable excuse for a human being to receive the same fate, by having his life executed? i know i would.. my emotions would the get best of my judgement, yes i know. instead of me thinking that this individual is spending the rest of his life in prison rotting in a cold cell, i would like to get my hands on him and kill him with my own hands.. i would have nothing but sorrow if i were to find out if he/she escaped (i know im going really ahead of myself ) and the thought of that person can commit harm and do even more hideous actions to someone else..

yes i agree with you david..killing someone cause they killed someone else is not justified...but if you were in this position..im very positive that you would want that individual who caused pain, hurt, and emotionally scar you for the rest of you life, to be tortured and executed without any sympathy...

i wouldn't want them to suffer the same fate. I think detainment is more humane, and then we aren't as bad as the murderer. I mean, by having a state justified murder doesn't make it anything different on a basis where we get rid of all legality. Killing is bad, and killing the killer is just as bad as killing the victim. But i know people are split on this issue. I'm not just saying this to be consistent with what i was saying either. I really think this. I woulnd't want to be involved in the torture/execution of the person because it's not ethically right in my standards. I'd be really mad, but i don't think i'd ever advocate capital punishment even in the heat of the moment. Though i won't rule it out because i haven't been in that situation, and don't know for certain what will happen. But i say it's unlikely that i'd switch views. I'd be content with the person being detained for the rest of their life, and their life being over through detainment rather than death. Death is so uncertain to me...I mean, what happens after death. Please no one answer that in this thread in order to stay on topic. If you want, make another thread

. I think i might.

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-11-2002 03:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
And, i agree with the rest of your post. That's the only part i have conflict with.

We're talking US here. Or at least I am. There have been studies conducted in the United States. States with the penalty, such as California, have the same (proportional) amount of murders as a state without them. There is no big difference between the two. In fact, I read a study in Newsweek that showed that some states with the death penalty have even HIGHER murder rates (proportionally) than ones that do not.
It is ridiculous to bring in Turkey this dicussion. Yes, if death was the punishment for everything, regardless of the situation, then murders and other offenses would occur less often. However, the US possesses a drastically different system of Justice, so it is inconceivable how one would be able to base their argument upon a country that a completely different system.

With the code of justice and conduct the United States has now, the death penalty serves as NO deterant.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-11-2002 05:17 AM:

no, but you can't quantify deterrence. It's impossible. Just because it may be the same or worse proportionally doesn't mean that a death penalty constitutes no effective deterrent. On an individual basis, it's bound to deter people off. Bringing in turkey is a perfectly logical example, it reflects how when i quantified it as well (yeah, i admit i did too), it can in fact prove an effective tool. On an individual basis, from person to person, i'm sure it deters some people off. I don't see how you could deny that.

One can judge use turkey as proof because we share the same penalty. It doesn't matter that as a totality we are different in justice systems, but only that we share what we are concentrating on, the death penalty. It is a deterrent, and even if it's not reflected in statistics doesn't mean it is not effective.

Posted by Klumzy on 10-11-2002 05:15 PM:

"i say kill em all" (some line from a movie i forgot which)

but seriously, if the USA killed ALL of the hardcore criminals like murders, rapists, multi-million dollar thiefs, then 1) THERE'D BE A LOT LESS CRIME 2)LESS MONEY WOULD BE SPEND FOR MAINTING JAILS (trust me these costs quite a few bucks and comes from OUR tax money... i ain't gonna waste a single cent on their worthless POS lives) 3)DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THOSE DUMBASS REPEAT OFFENDERS especially those fag-ass rapists... they be the scum of the world and deserve to get shot in the face

i think EVERY country should give the victim's family the right to kill/mutilate/torture the murderers/rapists/robbers as they wish.... this would soooo decrease murders/rape/and big time robbers

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-11-2002 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Klumzy
2)LESS MONEY WOULD BE SPEND FOR MAINTING JAILS (trust me these costs quite a few bucks and comes from OUR tax money...

tax dollars have to be paid for something, i wish i remembered what haha, anyway it was like in 7th grade i read something in Time about how it costs more to enforce capital punishment than to maintain people in jails. Don't nkow what kind of charges there are, but it costs money, more money. Like, recompense money to the families? i dunno.

quote:

ain't gonna waste a single cent on their worthless POS lives) 3)DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THOSE DUMBASS REPEAT OFFENDERS especially those fag-ass rapists... they be the scum of the world and deserve to get shot in the face

jail keeps them from doing it again outside of jail. Sure they can escape, but i wouldn't think a lot do. But yeah, it's not as definitive as capital punishment. But life in prison with no parole keeps them from repeating it too.

quote:

i think EVERY country should give the victim's family the right to kill/mutilate/torture the murderers/rapists/robbers as they wish.... this would soooo decrease murders/rape/and big time robbers

this is disgusting to me. Let's hand out rights to kill. The state has the authority to decide who gets to live and who doesn't...ahh

. Especially if the person is falsely accused and convicted...that is terrible. Handing out rights to kill is worse than killing i think. Not only are you killing someone, but you are saying it's okay... i agree with victor on this. I'll just quote him cause i'm lazy. "It is a way for the "righteous" to vent out their frustrations and bloodrage in vengeance. Revenge=irrational behavior=bad. While I definately understand how the families of the victims would want a death penatly, i would bitch slap them if they ever say that it was the "righteous" thing to do." -Victor (crazydeb8ter). All right.

Posted by aznkid1008 on 10-11-2002 10:49 PM:

yo we hav such a damn violent culture. just check this, around 20,000 (somethin like that) people die from hand guns in america. in britain its like avg around 50 or so. japan its even lower. i do believe we hav one hell of a violent culture. i mean gangs, fights, etc. etc. etc....
rite now i believe that american is thinking like "people dont kill people guns do"
while the rest of the world thinks that "people kill people, a gun just makes it easier"
maybe we should change how america thinks first.

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Posted by krnxswat on 10-11-2002 10:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by aznkid1008
yo we hav such a damn violent culture. just check this, around 20,000 (somethin like that) people die from hand guns in america. in britain its like avg around 50 or so. japan its even lower. i do believe we hav one hell of a violent culture. i mean gangs, fights, .

ok. and how big is britain and japan compared to America? compare britan and japn's population to America's population.

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-11-2002 11:58 PM:

quote:
One can judge use turkey as proof because we share the same penalty. It doesn't matter that as a totality we are different in justice systems, but only that we share what we are concentrating on, the death penalty. It is a deterrent, and even if it's not reflected in statistics doesn't mean it is not effective.

No we can not, because their penalty is founded upon different criteria or different requirements. Their motivations, in a sense, a different from ours.

quote:
"i say kill em all" (some line from a movie i forgot which)

Simplifying too much is just overlooking the important nuances in the issue. You forget that there are faults within the system, and in various cases INNOCENT people have been convicted and have been put on death row.

Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-12-2002 03:26 AM:

against.

imprisonment seems more cruel.

Posted by saranghae on 10-12-2002 04:19 AM:

against... yea... imprisonment seems more cruel...

wut if the person regrets... but then they wouldn't have a chance to live their life again...

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 10-12-2002 06:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter

No we can not, because their penalty is founded upon different criteria or different requirements. Their motivations, in a sense, a different from ours.

we were talking about how the death penalty isn't a deterrent...how does this possibly not apply? They both serve as a deterrent...the difference in motivation (what difference?) and criteria doesn't taint that at all. It all still creates a deterrent. You just keep restating yourself of which i still don't see how it even applies directly to deterrence, now how isn't it a deterrent just because their "motivations and criteria are different than ours."?

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