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-- masturbation (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11231)

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 07:26 AM:

well, here I was actually starting to enjoy this discussion and looking forward to your reply. hmm...of the few times I have a positive outlook on humanity, something has to screw it up. Anyways, on with the responses:

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
ok well first how bout you make some good arguments instead of just questioning mine


Wow, let's look at the thread: you've asked more questions in this one post than I have in the entire thread. Good arguments? Let's see a critique supporting your assertion.

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
without trying to use all the big vocab words to impress people, its not gonna help what you say anymore and if your gonna use pompous vocab try spelling it right


I never advocated myself to be a dictionary. Besides, you seem to have understood the meaning well enough.

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
and how dare you say God is wrong?


Yes, I have dared to speak that which has been already spoken. I critique God because he is susceptible to critique. He even gives himself negative qualities, calling himself a "jealous god," and "vengeful." Wait a minute, did Jesus not say in the Sermon on the Mount that violence is not the way to express oneself? Indeed he did. I question God, but I do not speak ill of him- that is a distinction you must recognize.

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
try to show some respect to the Christian religion which million of people live their lives by


Being respectful does not directly translate to acting as an unquestioning lamb. I question, yes, but I do so in a manner that does not try to debunk Christianity- hell, I believed in christian values at one point.

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
and btw, God is omniscient


unsubstantiated.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by s0lotu on 03-10-2003 07:30 AM:

to answer the question about food vs. sex

eating in itself is not wrong. it is necessary for survival. but it must be done appropriately. when it gets out of control, eating can, too, become sin. after all, one of the seven deadly sins is gluttony, no? it is when self-control is not exhibited and eating becomes, like it says in colossians 3:5, a form of idolatry.

likewise, sex in itself is not wrong. after all, it is God who invented it for the reproduction of humankind. but it, too, has its restrictions. having self-control in the area of sex is to wait until one is married. to do it outside of that is to be a glutton in sex.

there is no double standard. food and sex are both wonderful things given to us by God. but because of that, they can only be wonderful when they performed in the way God intended them for us.

Posted by kangg fu on 03-10-2003 07:31 AM:

for pete's sake argue about how mastubation isnt a sin not how i argued it man...

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 07:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
for pete's sake argue about how mastubation isnt a sin not how i argued it man...


actually, that is the reason why I'm still continuing this discussion. Your original statement (and subsequent statements) had missing links.

s0lotu articulated the religious viewpoint nicely.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by kangg fu on 03-10-2003 07:42 AM:

ok sooo...what are your arguments supporting that masturbation isnt a sin?

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 07:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
ok sooo...what are your arguments supporting that masturbation isnt a sin?


here's a little technique you may learn: If you shear the other's argument into tatters, and your stance remains intact, you win. My entire role throughout the thread was not that of one trying to assert his opinions, but rather to get the other to attempt to fill in the aforementioned missing links.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by kangg fu on 03-10-2003 07:54 AM:

man i cant believe you actually argue for the sake of argument, and not only that but you try to "win" the argument and actually believe that it was a matter of winning or losing. You dont really care whether masturbation is a sin, and im just another person you started an argument with for the sake of arguing...at the same time trying to blow people away with fancy words...grow up

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 08:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
man i cant believe you actually argue for the sake of argument, and not only that but you try to "win" the argument and actually believe that it was a matter of winning or losing.


and you are aware that you can use techniques outside of a contest atmosphere, aren't you? It's simply another method of argumentation.

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
You dont really care whether masturbation is a sin


you're right, I really don't

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
and im just another person you started an argument with for the sake of arguing...grow up


Well, to be exact, I argued because you're main assertion was, quite frankly, very flawed. This piqued my interest, and I responded. How that has anything to do with my level of growth, I cannot see. Explain it to me, i'm facinated....really.

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
at the same time trying to blow people away with fancy words


I wasn't really trying to "blow people away" (witness all my other posts in the forum), but now that you mention it, I suppose that it's a nice byproduct

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by s0lotu on 03-10-2003 08:04 AM:

wow you're cocky.

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 08:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by s0lotu
wow you're cocky.

-shrugs- oh well.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by s0lotu on 03-10-2003 08:24 AM:

btw, kangg fu's original statement was not "flawed" as you described it. ultimately, his statement that it is selfishness that makes it wrong is true. it is when it is centered on the self and the self's desires and not in accordance with God's will.

just because you didn't understand what he meant by selfish does not mean his statement was flawed. "unclear to someone who is more ignorant," perhaps, would have been a better way to describe it.

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 08:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by s0lotu
just because you didn't understand what he meant by selfish does not mean his statement was flawed. "unclear to someone who is more ignorant," perhaps, would have been a better way to describe it.


I'll concede this one. You're right, "flawed" was a bit strong, and a bit off. I based this upon the apparent missing link between masturbation and selfishness that I, as well as one who is religiously attuned, missed. In that respect, yes, it was unclear and not very thorough at all, and those two descriptions would have been better substitutes.
btw I'm assuming that the use of 'ignorant' holds no negative connotations.

btw. if this came off as cocky, it wasn't meant to be

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by merdawg on 03-10-2003 03:53 PM:

just wondering how a a simply question proposed by "BigChubuff" turned out into a superficial argument about how someone argues a point. All kangg fu wanted to do was answer "BigCHubuff's" question and maybe enlighten him. After all, all he wanted were answers to his questions. Maybe we should focus on helping the person that starts the thread rather than arguing about what somone's (kangg fu) way of helping out.

__________________


"Love is like a friendship caught on fire. In the beginning a flame, very pretty, often hot and fierce, but still only light and flickering. As love grows older, our hearts mature and our love becomes as coals, deep-burning and unquenchable. " - Bruce Lee

Posted by .aS.|5p!7f!|23 on 03-10-2003 03:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by requiem
Run. And fast. A mentality like that will not get you far as it is. Might as well start now.


1:30.3 600m - rank 5 in section 1. im covered.

as for crazydeb8ter, your gay shut the fuck up. just stop talking.

mer: correct

jason: correct

Posted by s0lotu on 03-10-2003 05:25 PM:

WERD

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 03-10-2003 06:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by .aS.|5p!7f!|23
as for crazydeb8ter, your gay shut the fuck up. just stop talking.


let me think about this for a second...

no.

quote:
Originally posted by merdawg
All kangg fu wanted to do was answer "BigCHubuff's" question and maybe enlighten him. After all, all he wanted were answers to his questions. Maybe we should focus on helping the person that starts the thread rather than arguing about what somone's (kangg fu) way of helping out.


i believe there's something called inquiry as a way to reach a state of higher clarity. Notice that while I pressed kangg fu to articulate his point better, I acknowledged s0lotu's post because it was explained well (God intended for sexual desire to be sated during sex after marriage). Now, Kangg Fu's original statement had some problems. He did not explicate the relationship between masturbation and selfishness, essentially, he did not provide a proper line of reasoning that demonstrated how he came to such a conclusion. He then follows up my response by saying that it is selfish because one is acting upon his/her sexual desires during masturbation. That link was unfounded as well, and because I interpreted his assertion to be non-religious at this point, I introduced the 'double-standard' argument. Kangg Fu then follows up with the whole adultery & greater plan deal. Because clarification is not needed anymore, I proceed to critique the validity of his argument- God's omniscience. In truth, I was looking forward to his response because I was genuinely interested in how he would answer, and I also believed that it could help bring a 'larger picture' element into the discussion. Alas, the degeneration began from there.

btw- s0lotu, when taken under a religious view, yes, there is no double standard, but one must realize that my point was based on the fact that he was arguing in a non-sacred context at the time. Kinda let it slide back there because I thought the discussion would end there, but given that it's going to continue, I'll bring it up now.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by requiem on 03-10-2003 10:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by .aS.|5p!7f!|23
1:30.3 600m - rank 5 in section 1. im covered.

as for crazydeb8ter, your gay shut the fuck up. just stop talking.

mer: correct

jason: correct


A bullet can travel from 180 and 1500 meters per second. All I'm saying is that with a close minded view like that, you're likely to set off arguments. I'm not in your boat ("down with religion"). Religion is necessary for some people. People who believe in it are fine with me - some people need to - others find comfort in it. What I don't like is people who try to force it on me, and I arm myself to the teeth to defend myself and the spread of their misknowledge.

In total, all I'm saying is don't be so closed minded. And also, be more creative when you attempt to insult someone, especially someone as intelligent as crazydeb8ter.

__________________
When the day is done
you are all that is left

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 03-10-2003 11:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by requiem
In total, all I'm saying is don't be so closed minded. And also, be more creative when you attempt to insult someone, especially someone as intelligent as crazydeb8ter.


haha, exactly what i was thinking. You didn't get anywhere with that comment except create laughter in many of us. I don't see why you felt the need to resort to such spineless and immature insults. As for your 'down with religion' idea, i have to say you make me ashamed to be atheist...

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 03-10-2003 11:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by kangg fu
without trying to use all the big vocab words to impress people, its not gonna help what you say anymore and if your gonna use pompous vocab try spelling it right


um...trying?

Just saying, but i'd think a better vocab would be able to better articulate a side than a poor one. So yes, it does help...

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by merdawg on 03-10-2003 11:47 PM:

Re: masturbation

lol...here we go again..straying away from the topic at hand.
what was it? i think it was:



quote:
Originally posted by bigChubuff
i know it is a sin but how bad of a sin is it?
is it really that bad?

and where in the bible does it mention masturbation?

__________________


"Love is like a friendship caught on fire. In the beginning a flame, very pretty, often hot and fierce, but still only light and flickering. As love grows older, our hearts mature and our love becomes as coals, deep-burning and unquenchable. " - Bruce Lee
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