Jusunlee.com Forums (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/index.php)
- Enlightenment (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=17)
-- Teleogical Ontology (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=699)

Teleogical Ontology

let's not get into a religious debate, go to the debate forum and do that, so aside from that:

Assuming life came from nonlife (no creator)

"How could life possibly have a meaning or purpose when we were created spontaneously and without reason?"

If there was no pre-creation (not creationist) purpose how can there be a reason. Or is the reason of life only those that which we infuse with it. But who are we to do that? And if so, how will we have a purpose aside from life itself? We won't do anything to help the universe and in fact are simply part of a neverending cycle.

there is no "purpose"

why do you feel that with our existance, we should "help" the universe?

if you're trying to get at the idea "why should we live?" if we have no purpose

then you can always ask yourself "why should we not live?"

why do you need a purpose huh?



"Or is the reason of life only those that which we infuse with it"

this sentence makes no sense....

but I get what you're trying to say.



but shit...

stop trying to think so deep


hahaha

in the end it's not going to get you any sort of peace of mind....

the best approach to this is just simply living life...

and staying positive..

or you can shoot yourself,

i won't care, in fact i wouldn't even know

these sort of thinking is pointless, that's basically what I'm trying to say...

cause it just becomes a neverending cycle

First of all, my views on purposes in life are the same as yours. There is no "purpose." I was trying to stir up conversation with that post and it wasn't for my personal benefit or discovery as you have imposed on me. But answering your questions:


"Why should we help the universe?"

-I don't feel we should help the universe. I was offering an ideal that would spark up discourse as to what defines purpose in life in all it's aspects.

"Why do you need a purpose huh?"

-I don't need a purpose, it was simply to get people posting. This wasn't a personal post, and i wasn't trying to find a peace of mind. I was trying to get people to think deeper and this would be a more intelligent thread.


Anyway, i think it's hilarious you misunderstood my post and imposed all those questions i inquired upon me as my opinion. No where in the post did i say "I think" or anything (and though an "I think" phrase or something like that is not necessary, i did not heavily imply i felt a purpose was necessary either). Even my initial "question" spurs the reader into thinking i believe there is no purpose. I say "How could life possibly have a meaning or purpose when we were created spontaneously and without reason?" The former part "How could life possibly have a meaning", does that sound like i advocate an existance of purpose, or negate it? That looks like a pessimistic statement, not one that "desires" a hope for a purpose. And the latter part of the sentence is "we were created spontaneously and without reason." That imply's i think there is no reason.

I thank you for the ideals you have listed, as they are pretty much mine as well. But your sluggish comments do little and are frivilous when the person you are trying to say something to doesn't even think that way.. Why not think deep? I wasn't doing it to find any sort of peace of mind, simply to hear others ideals. And that sentence you said didn't make sense does. It's not entirely correct cause i wrote it fast, but just take out the word "those" and it should be fine. Later.

BTW, anyone else who feels we do have a purpose can answer those questions as well to offer some contrasting point of view.

okay i'm just... not good with words... so it'll probably sound jumbled... and i'm not very smart but this is a really interesting topic.... some of your questions are just like o.O... so.. a simpleton's point of view....

"Why should we help the universe?"

we're such a small part of it that anything we do as ONE person really won't matter.... will it? i don't think we really can... cuz yea the universe is so big... can you be more specific? like my universe consists of... my life.. i don't care about comso's and blackholes billions of lightyears away.(i sound really... self involved?)

it's kind of weird for me to think there is no creator. I always thought the purpose of life was to go to heaven... be good in your life and you'll go to heaven. if you ask me.... we're probably destroying the universe (our universe... like the earth)

"Why do you need a purpose huh?"

i guess...i feel like i need my life to be worth something. i don't want to feel like wasted space... isn't that kind of the reason people want to be famous or accomplish something great and get recognition? so they won't feel like their life is wasted? isn't that why ppl set goals? so after they reach them.. they've actually done something with their lives... but i guess it won't matter anyway because... they all die...and then it's all worth the shit they turn into....

eh .....i feel like i didn't contribute anything to his topic..i'm really not good with words.. -____-... i wrote something that i thought was intelligent... and someone said it was jumbled and incoherent....... damn it...

it doesn't matter if you have a purpose or not so no use thinking about it

trying to think deep is useless

yeah, just go to sleep

if life was made from a noncreator then we are nothing.

no creater=no purpose. There is no purpose to life. We are just pure accidents. All of this, everything on earth SHOULDN'T have been made, but by some random chance, the earth was able to maintain life, and life somehow sparked.

I refuse to believe that this is all there is to everything though. If there is no purpose and no real creator, then we are all just gigantic strands of protein, floating meaninglessly in space.

But just LOOK at the entire earht! . I mean everything is self sustainable. entire eco systems, reproductive systems, respiration systems, water systems, weather systems, cellular systems, heat systems.

There are SOOOO many cycles that are so complicated. Yet somehow they all fit with each other and help each other to keep life available. How did all these complicated systems just come about just as accident???

i think it makes a lot of sense they came together through spontaneity.

Also, i believe the way you are thinking is what they call the Gaia theory (maybe not, though i believe so). I'm sure you can find more online about it. Post any interesting stuff you stumble onto!

__________________
immagijibae: seons a hoeeeeeee, he wears them g-strings, and i also knowwwww, they hurt his dinga-lings~ la l alalala~ nanannan~ oh~ seons a hoeeeeee, he wears them g-strings..............
immagijibae: liiiiiiiiiiiiiike my new 1-minute-made-up song???????

Hmm... Gaia Theory

It was founded by James Lovelock.

After what i searched on it, it basically says that the Earth is somewhat like a living breathing organim, just like we are.

We have cells in our body that do different things yet keep us alive and moving. Well the plants and animals are like cells to the earth. It works through many things to sustain it, and if something goes wrong, there will be some kind of regulatory movement there to bring it back to health. Kinda interstin.

So I guess our purpose is to keep Earth alive and well. (i just had an epiphany, yay ) But we're not doing a great job of it though (can you say "RAPE"???)

Exactly what i was thinking (after pondering the same thing in a convo with Susan :satisfy: ). This is actually something i used to believe in like 4th grade when i actually believed in god (out of fear mostly heh ) Anyway:

Since the earth indirectly created us we have an unspoken responsibility to maintain it as the highest evolved of all of life on this planet. You don't have to be created by a creator for that to be realized. In order for there to exist a pre-defined purpose of life there has to be an omniscient entity/cause/force that is "expecting" that from us. Since there is none (from my point of view) we have to infuse our own world with whatever meaning we see sensible.

However, this does seem very utopian in comparison with today's ideals. We are too busy prolonging the lives of humans and insuring the lives of new humans. We are on the verge of overpopulation (moreso than now). I have more ideals on this in the debate forum under "Animal rights and the future." basically saying how there will be no room for animals in the future and they will literally be gone except for the comforts and necessities of those which we will "grow." Anyway, back on subject we are too selfishly concerned with ourselves rather than that which created and sustained us. We have grown to such a large level that coexisting with the earth is nothing short of absurd in the future. We will have to colonize elsewhere due to our ignorance of purpose and with that sacrifice all other life earth has granted indirectly. Going back to gaia theory, earth will probably (as a living organism/entity) create disease or some other controlling factor to attempt to limit the amount of humans on earth though i doubt it will be succesful (disease has been spreading and created in present day but in the future there will be a plethora more than now because of all the people here). Wow, i've gotten kind of off-topic hm hm, anyway i'll sum it up:

in 4th grade when i believed in god, i thought humans were put on this earth as the "internal moderators" to maintain and take care of the earth. Being the most intelligent of all life, it was a logical assumption. Humans were meant to coexist with the animals but instead chose to move towards their comforts in life and civilization which enervated all chances thus far of man being just "part of earth" but man (i use this term because it's used in history books for ancient people, it's not sexist, sorry) has begun to take over it. And with that we have defied all earth and god (when i believed it) by not looking after earth but succumbing to greed.

We really don't even try to maintain our planet, our only hope really is that technology progress to be able to rectify all empiric nature harms. I'm thinking Nano-Ecology technology should be able to help i suppose, though it seems rather far from getting to that level. This is a race, how long can we sustain the comforts and continuing killing the earth while our technology races to rectify the problems and at the same time killing earth as well. Technology vs. Earth's ability to sustain us, which one will be the victor?

Man, i should write a column

gaia theory



let's all go find the 7th spirit before it's too late.

__________________
word is bond

haha, sweet i had forgotten about that movie. The gaia theory in that movie was loosely based on it and revolved around spirits. Fairy Tales! j/k

So we ARE viruses to Earth!! HA! (matrix flashback)

tommy you've killed the discourse with your pun! j/p...i suppose

i was a 1:100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000

chance, and it happened?

i don't think you have enough 0 there.

yep, it happened

back on topic, here is a word from a good friend Nietzche

For what purpose humanity is there should not even concern us: why you are there, that you should ask yourself: and if you have no ready answer, then set for yourself goals, high and noble goals, and perish in pursuit of them! I know of no better life purpose than to perish in attempting the great and the impossible...
- Friedrich Nietzsche, unpublished note 1873