Re: Re: Re: The Working Class
quote: Originally posted by Spuzzter
Well I have a number of choice responses for your entire reply, but just taking the piece above: if it isn't ethically fair, then how can it really be called fair at all?
well, it'd be fair in other areas. Of course. That's how it's fair. When i said it wasn't ethically fair, i was exempting that when i said it was fair. In all other areas it's fair.
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For me, the idea that while people of my class with too much money and too much time on their hands have the luxury and the option to entertain themselves night after night, while some poor sap is going to a second full-time job to support a needing family. Call me old-fashioned, but if something offends me as a humane person, I cannot put on a poker-face and declare it 'fair' and 'just' according to our economic system.
sorry, this is all ethics. Economically fair is isolatory from ethical standards. You are subsuming ethics into economics. It IS just and fair according to our economical system, how can you deny that? Oh, maybe if you combine ethics into this then you cna say it's not, yeah that's what you are doing. it is economically fair, but not ethically economically fair.
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Economic systems can, have been, and will be changed. It is only because of those same saps that have too much money and too much time on their hands that others have to break their backs in order to wipe our shit off of toilet seats and cast the nails that go into our coffins.
ok. Power to the anti-foucauldians i guess.
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America is not good, America is not acceptable; i refuse to believe that the status quo is agreeable just because it is the status quo.
america is not all good, american is not totally acceptable. Nothing is. I'd much rather be an undisciplined member of the animal kingdom, than live in the artificiality that is created through some uber-civilization that make drones of their people in order to be utilitarian...all for the sake of ethics.
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And yes, I know that I have benefited, but call it an inkling of a conscience or a sliver of humanity that makes me want to better the lives and situations of my fellow man who must spend their entire lives to provide the fat of the land that I feed on.
a sliver of humanity? please. In the ways you think my anti-ethical views are evil, socialist disciplining is as or more evil in my opinion. There are different forms of evil, and i take brainwashing to be a greater evil than everyone to be fair and feignly happy in drone-life. When people are in fact inherently not equal. Yes, that's a capitalist mindset, but you yourself agreed to it as well. Yes, i must not have this sliver of humanity for me having other values i put ahead of yours... . I think it's even more inhumane of you to want to be so mentally imperialist. Sure, you could say the same thing about me, but the imperialism i advocate allows for options of different kinds, not just one form of discipline. This "sliver of humanity" you use to justify yourself seems to be contradictory in my eyes. You are taking away humanity by mechanizing them...not humane at all.
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David, you yourself quote Tolstoy in your subprofile:
"I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means—except by getting off his back."
-Count Leo Nikolayevich Tolstoy
Ever think about it?
of course i've thought about it, it's because i thought about it that i put the quote in my profile.
This is the difference, i'm not that man. I am not sorry for the people i'm choking, and i don't want to ease his lot becuase i realize the evils of the methodology i'd have to do it in (disciplining). I may be on his back, but i don't really want to get off for the sake of utilitarianism. I'd rather stay on and prevent a greater evil from happening than to risk it all for "ethical" means.
I really don't see how that quotation applies to me.
-edit- i just noticed that you quoted the line about me having thought about it...why? Do you think i somehow have not? You've reiterated several times the hardships of the working class several times and even before then i had thought about it...do you really think i haven't? It seems like you are trying to make an argument here or something cause i can't figure out a reason why you quoted it. Is it that i "haven't realized the severity yet?" cause well, i don't think by citing observations that i'm going to agree on some sort of pandemically lower ethical common ground, cause there is none.
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Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.
"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."
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-Cromwell
Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 01-20-2003 at 04:46 PM
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