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daNNy LuV 1TYM
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Registered: Mar 2002
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Re: Re: Re: *attention All Christians/catholics/buddhists/other Religous Believers*

quote:
Originally posted by ajy
There was no jesus

you can deny the existence of god, but you can't deny the fact that jesus was a real man and a historical figure. he's real.

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02-22-2004 01:52 AM

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craziistarz
where is the love?

Registered: Mar 2003
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Schopenhauer's definition of the Sublime is the contemplation of Beauty under threatening circumstances. But one may gaze at a beautiful girl in a thunderstorm, and that would not be the Sublime...The Sublime is not Beauty, but something else, which is related to Beauty, yet transcends it

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02-22-2004 02:14 AM

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Gatorboy07
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The ones who believe in the existence of God, especially Christians, have written many long books, short articles, and everything else in between trying to prove God's existence to the doubters. They have used examples from nature; they have constructed logical arguments using scientific facts and theories and philosophical considerations. The nonbelievers have also written many books and articles trying to show that God does not exist. The believers remain believers; the doubters remain doubters. Usually, nothing much is gained for either side by these arguments.

In order to find a person, we need to find where the person is. In order to contact something, we need to know the realm in which that thing exists. Where is God? What realm is God living in? Where is man? What realm is man living in? Is there a common realm in which the two may meet?... It is also impossible to substantiate God in the mental or psychological realm... His wisdom is too great for the limited mind of man to comprehend. Mankind has not fathomed the wonders of nature; we can fully grasp neither life, nor death, nor existence after death. We have not yet explored all the different forms of life on this planet,.. including micro-organisms and mammoth creatures of past and present. We have not yet fully explored teh microcosm and macrocosm of this universe. We have not yet fully unearthed our own past history, nor can we be certain of what will happen in our future, even in such simple matters as the weather or the timing of the next earthquake. Mankind does not even understand himself, so how can we ever begin to understand the Designer and Creator of the universe, or comprehend the purpose for which all things (and we ourselves) were made? God is too colossal, universal, and multifarious in wisdom; no matter how long we ponder, we can never imagine what heis really like and what he wants. Finite beings have a natural limitation comprehending the infinite One. It is harder for a man to understand God than it is for a worm to understand man.

Last edited by Gatorboy07 on 03-18-2004 at 01:21 PM

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03-18-2004 01:15 PM

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hnefrdo
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: martinez, ca
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Re: *attention All Christians/catholics/buddhists/other Religous Believers*

quote:
Originally posted by ajy
God isnt real, get over it.

i actually agree with ajy on this one. some of yu believers came back with "how do yu kno he doesn't exist?" well, how do yu kno he does?

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03-18-2004 10:57 PM

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J-DraGoNz
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^^
thats why its called faith. theres no real sure way to prove that either God exists or not. so you cant just say He does or He doesnt, its what you believe and your issues with your faith.

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03-19-2004 02:30 AM

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hnefrdo
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quote:
Originally posted by J-DraGoNz
^^
thats why its called faith. theres no real sure way to prove that either God exists or not. so you cant just say He does or He doesnt, its what you believe and your issues with your faith.

im not trying to start a war here, but yu'd all think im crazy if i made up a guy in my head (an imaginary frend), and completely had faith in him and believed he exists. God is the same thing, only sumone else made him up a long time ago. haha.

looking back to one of the replies to this thread, sumone mentioned using God to explain miricles. if a man gets hit by a car at 80 miles an hour and survives, and it is considered a miricle, would God receive the credit for the miricle is it wuz hitler that survived the blow? this is just an example. i use hitler because most people don't like him.

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03-19-2004 04:00 AM

Alchemist
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How do you know God is imaginary and not real?

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03-19-2004 12:11 PM

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hnefrdo
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quote:
Originally posted by Alchemist
How do you know God is imaginary and not real?

how do you know God is real and not imaginary? that's the way it works. if i told yu i saw a three headed monster with each head that looked like one of your cousins, you wouldn't believe me until i could prove it, and you definitely would not believe it and then tell sumone else about it asking him to disprove the idea. it's the same thang.

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03-19-2004 05:06 PM

Alchemist
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quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
how do you know God is real and not imaginary? that's the way it works. if i told yu i saw a three headed monster with each head that looked like one of your cousins, you wouldn't believe me until i could prove it, and you definitely would not believe it and then tell sumone else about it asking him to disprove the idea. it's the same thang.

You're the one suggesting that God is imaginary. You are the one who said God was made up by someone and compared him to an imaginary friend.

You're the one trying to impose your beliefs on others.

Last edited by Alchemist on 03-20-2004 at 06:56 PM

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03-20-2004 06:53 PM

hnefrdo
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quote:
Originally posted by Alchemist
You're the one suggesting that God is imaginary. You are the one who said God was made up by someone and compared him to an imaginary friend.

You're the one trying to impose your beliefs on others.

im asking how anyone, if anyone, knows that he exists or existed at one time.

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03-20-2004 11:33 PM

aaqthree
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Re: Re: *attention All Christians/catholics/buddhists/other Religous Believers*

quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
i actually agree with ajy on this one. some of yu believers came back with "how do yu kno he doesn't exist?" well, how do yu kno he does?

The point is that it doesn't matter since neither of us can prove anything.

This is not about what you know, it's about how you feel.

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03-21-2004 05:02 PM

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AZN Pinoy BOI
..:SeNsei-Kun

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: NY
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quote:
Originally posted by castle outsider
dude teddy do you know what the hell you just said..you said attention religious people, god is real..as if they werent thinking about that already

whyd you have to quote me julie..now i look like a crap sucking atheist. i was just trying to make fun of the things he was saying cause he brought up dead people comming back alive and i thought it was funny.

wow haven't been here in awhile, but its like wut aaqthree, we can't prove anything

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03-21-2004 05:37 PM

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Alchemist
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quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
im asking how anyone, if anyone, knows that he exists or existed at one time.

Looks like someone's got a case of the "Let's play a card but not allow anyone else to play it"

You seem to demand proof while having none of your own to provide.

Let�s take a look at what you�ve said

quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
i actually agree with ajy on this one. some of yu believers came back with "how do yu kno he doesn't exist?" well, how do yu kno he does?

I see two possible reasons for you to say this, if I haven�t marked any of them just reply with what your reason is.

Either you responded to the question with your own question turning it around and therefore creating a loop of the question itself. It would be quite bootless as you have no way of determining who the burden of proof lies on, the one who believes, or the one who imposes.

Or you might be making a statement saying that the question itself isn�t a good argument, in which case you�ve just turned your argument into a self-collapsing vortex of hypocrisy.

quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
im not trying to start a war here, but yu'd all think im crazy if i made up a guy in my head (an imaginary frend), and completely had faith in him and believed he exists. God is the same thing, only sumone else made him up a long time ago. haha.

Here you�re saying that faith isn�t enough, you seem to be demanding proof. You�re also making a blatant attempt to impose your ideas on others (or you�ve just got some poor diction) and on top of that you don�t actually provide proof yourself.

But I think you might be imposing your ideas as you said you agreed with ajy (who was probably joking)

Last edited by Alchemist on 03-21-2004 at 07:41 PM

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03-21-2004 07:09 PM

StardustWolfCry
The Stars Cry Out To Me

Registered: May 2003
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Will it really matter? You're all going to die (well, as far as I know )and find out, or not find out... Unless you're planning on being evil...

Personally, I'm agnostic... I live my life as if there were a God, to "play it safe", but I have more of a disbelief in God... I don't feel like going through the reasoning...

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Ironically, we live to die... life is inevitable, so we are either living, or we are dead, but where are we when we are dead? Maybe we aren't ever "dead".Life is a memory. Time is always moving, so there is no now, thus all life is, is just a memory.

By.....me...Although I'm sure some one thought of that before me...

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03-21-2004 09:20 PM

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hnefrdo
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here's wut it comes down to, alchem. i can't proof that he doesn't exist, and no one can prove that he does. if sumone told another without proof that santa clause exists, the listener wouldn't believe him and then try to find a reason to disprove. the rational person would ask for proof first, unless if he were an iggnorant lil kiddy.

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03-22-2004 02:03 AM

aaqthree
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quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
here's wut it comes down to, alchem. i can't proof that he doesn't exist, and no one can prove that he does. if sumone told another without proof that santa clause exists, the listener wouldn't believe him and then try to find a reason to disprove. the rational person would ask for proof first, unless if he were an iggnorant lil kiddy.

The rational person, in ANY circumstance, considers all possibilities and then comes to his own conclusion after given all the facts.

To some people, it makes more sense that there is a God. Regardless of whether or not you can prove his existence; some people see the patterns in the world as a sign of God (some see them as just natural occurrences).

If you're saying that whoever holds the belief also holds the burden of proof, then that burden lies on both sides. It DOES take a leap of faith to believe in the nonexistence of God; therefore, that position should have to be justified.

The Santa Clause analgoy fails here because it doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that Santa Clause isn't real. Since those who believe in Santa Clause believe that he is a real, physical being, then you can show that in this physical world, objects cannot exist in more than one position (at least on the macroscopic level...) at one time. So it is very easy to disprove this one's existence...however, since God's existence is completely debatable, you would need to make a leap of faith to truly believe that there is no way that God can exist.

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03-22-2004 03:00 AM

hnefrdo
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read over my last post with anything else in place of "santa clause."

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03-22-2004 04:21 AM

Crazydeb8ter
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christ people. theres no point in beating a dead horse.

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"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
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03-22-2004 08:07 AM

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Alchemist
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quote:
Originally posted by hnefrdo
read over my last post with anything else in place of "santa clause."

His post generally covers any topic that replaces Santa Clause, the only thing that was specific to Santa Clause was the last paragraph which was generally to point out that your analogy doesn�t really work.

If you replaced Santa Clause with anything else, then you'd have either:

Something which doesn't take a leap of faith, in which case you could probably prove or disprove.

Or

Something that does require a leap of faith, in which case he's got the rest of his post talking about it.

Last edited by Alchemist on 03-23-2004 at 02:15 AM

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03-23-2004 02:02 AM